“Bogle Would Love to Be Able to Start Over and to Advocate Valuation-Informed Indexing Rather Than Buy-and-Hold”

Set forth below are some words that I posted in a comment to the Goon Central board last Thursday:

Do you think I’m in it for the money? OR the other ‘Goons”

I certainly don’t think you are in it for the money, Drip Guy. I don’t think Greaney is. I don’t think Lindauer is.

I don’t think Bogle advocates Buy-and-Hold for money reasons. I think he advocates it because he believes in it.

But I certainly think that money considerations have played a big role in the 30-year cover-up of the academic research showing that Buy-and-Hold can never work in the long term.

I think Bogle and lots of others would love to be able to start over and to advocate Valuation-Informed Indexing rather than Buy-and-Hold. But they are afraid of the trillions of dollars in legal liabilities they have taken on by continuing to advocate Buy-and-Hold for 30 years after research was published showing that it can never work. I believe that they painted themselves into a corner and are now feeling desperately trapped.

I see it as my job to help them and to help us all achieve the transition we need to make. The biggest obstacle I face is the lack of support I get from people like Bogle. Bogle could turn this thing around with one speech that he arranged to have written up on the front page of the New York Times. Putting it off doesn’t make it easier. Putting it off makes it harder.

Money is a big part of the problem there. Money considerations are one of the primary things holding us back. Another is pride. Another is genuine ignorance. Another is complacency. There’s more than one thing holding us back. But, yes, I am certain that money is a big factor here.



  1. Drip Guy says

    Why did you not put my comments in their orginal context:

    “Do you think I’m in it for the money? OR the other ‘Goons” who you claim somehow torment you, but in reality merely make occasional public comments about your own public antics and pronouncements and efforts to monetize stupidity?

    …I think a guy could have about the same odds of monetizing a beach-front metal detector scheme as he would a finance blog. Even if they were good at what they were trying to do. Which you, of course, are not.

  2. Rob says

    The full discussion is provided at the link, Drip Guy. The thread at the link is the context in which your comments appeared.

    I wish you all good things, old friend.


  3. Drip Guy says

    Your purposeful snippage makes it look like I accept, agree, and even want to extend your use of the term “Goon”; when the full context obviously illustrates that I am using it to point out that your use of that term is ridiculous on it’s face.

    The way you edited that phrase to serve your own purposes is typical of you and just one of the many ways you find to obfuscate and otherwise lie in nearly every post you make.

    Your fantasy of getting Bogle to publicly acknowledge you, apologize for something (?), and then get you on the cover of the New York Times is one of the more bizarre running delusions you have.

    The idea that you will be able to extract money from people in court just because they disagree with you and find your efforts to be something you are not, to be ridiculous, is the one that is even bigger, and even more laughable.

    How does it feel to end up as a middle-aged unemployed joke?

  4. Rob says

    I don’t agree with anything you say here, Drip Guy.

    You put the word “Goon” between quote marks to distance yourself from it and I included the quote marks in my blog entry.

    How is anything I say about Bogle a “fantasy”? Bogle acknowledges today that the Old School SWR studies get the numbers wildly wrong. Do you think he intended to get them wrong? He obviously understands that it would be better at this point to come clean.

    Bogle is suffering from the same problem that is holding back Wade Pfau. He knows that Buy-and-Hold doesn’t add up. But he doesn’t know how to say that without causing a collapse. The thing to do is to come clean as soon as possible. The sooner the better.

    Had Bogle come clean back in May 2002, we wouldn’t be in this economic crisis today. At that time, the idea of coming clean seemed scary. But it is today 20 times more important that he come clean and also 20 times scarier a prospect.



  5. Drip Guy says

    “How is anything I say about Bogle a “fantasy”? Bogle acknowledges today that the Old School SWR studies get the numbers wildly wrong.”


  6. Rob says

    There’s no need to get the numbers right in retirement studies.

    John Bogle has zero responsibilities re this matter.

    That certainly makes sense, Drip Guy.

    Hang in there, man.


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