Yesterday’s blog entry described an e-mail that I received on December 16, 2010, from academic researcher Wade Pfau. Set forth below are the words of my response.
Wade:
Thanks for your response.
All is forgiven from my end. All of the points you make in your response make sense to me. There is no question that this is explosive stuff and it is hard at times to say things perfectly. I of course struggle with that same issue. So long as there is good intent, things work their way to a good place. I can assure you that there is good intent on my end. I am reassured by the words of your response that there is good intent on your end.
Differences on fine points are of course not a problem. Those sorts of differences are to be expected and are healthy.
There has been HUGE interest at that board in SWRs in the past. I believe that the reason why you did not see a response is that people there feel shame over how the board has handled this issue. Part of it is how they interacted with me and part of it is how they misled people re the issue (it is a reality that people were misled — the best interpretation that can be put on it is that the people putting forward the misleading stuff were suffering from cognitive dissonance).
The personality clash is with SOME Bogleheads, not all Bogleheads. There are some great people over there who would love to have me participate in the discussions held there. They are (understandably) afraid to speak up. When a segment of a board community fears stating its honest views, the board had lost its intellectual integrity; people are not hearing both sides. It doesn’t make me happy to say this. But it needs to be said.
I am grateful for you spelling out the cause of your concern by saying: “The thing that troubled me was how sure you were about your predictions.” I believe that there is a misunderstanding here. I am NOT dogmatic about the particular predictions. I do not believe that dogmatism re that aspect of the question is justified. I love it when someone like yourself puts forward a different reasonable take. That gets people thinking. We need more debate, and dogmatism will not get us that.
My guess is that the thing that I was being dogmatic about in the comments you have in mind was the idea that SOME adjustment must be made for valuations. I do see it as being irresponsible to make no adjustment for valuations whatsoever given the consequences that follow for retirees who place their confidence in SWR studies that get the numbers wrong. My view is that there is an INSANE level of dogmatism coming from some of the defenders of the Old School studies. If they could just acknowledge that there is more than one reasonable point of view, we could all be friends.
Anyway, I very much do NOT believe that dogmatism is justified re these matters. It does indeed sting for me to hear myself described as being dogmatic here because I have invested so much in the way of blood, sweat and tears into efforts to bring the dogmatism to an end and to get things pointed in a more positive direction.
There’s an awful lot of material at those links. I certainly don’t expect you to look at all of it. You probably would prefer to focus on materials that deal with substantive matters (most of those materials focus on the process questions). I will get some links on substantive matters to you within the next few days.
Still, you might want to spend a little bit of time looking at the links that focus on the process questions. I have spent an awful lot of time on the SWR matter and on related matters and I have come to believe that the full reality is that there ultimately is a great deal of overlap between the substance issues and the process issues. I am going to put forward one illustration of what I mean by this just to give you a sense of what I am getting at.
You mentioned that you were not aware of the SWR controversy until September of this year. That should not have been the case! Bill Bernstein does rough calculations in his book “The Four Pillars of Investing” showing that the SWR at the top of the bubble was somewhere near 2 percent. Unfortunately, even most people who have read the book are not aware of this because he wrote it up in such a way as to downplay the finding. And of course the finding was not front-page news in the major papers, as I very much believe it should have been.
There are all sorts of issues like this. We “know” all sorts of things about investing today that we do not want to acknowledge that we “know.” My aim is to harvest this unappreciated knowledge. I do not by any stretch of the imagination believe that I have all the answers. But I do believe strongly that we need to launch a debate. I had a reputation prior to my involvement in the SWR debate of being a “teddy bear” poster. I am likely one of the least confrontational people you know. My problem re this matter is that there are a good number who object violently even to the idea of having a discussion. And discussion boards at which critically important issues may not be discussed rarely achieve their full potential.
I regret that you have had to sort through all this drama. But I will direct a phrase to you that you have used in reference to me. There is something in you that saw an issue of some importance when you happened across the thread on SWRs. YOU are really on to something in seeing the significance there (many smart people have failed to see it). I hope that perhaps I will be able to point you to some things that perhaps will spark further fruitful investigations.
No dogmatism. That’s out! The aim here is exploration of potentially exciting new realities. It’s been my goal since the first day to bring out the positive in all this (which in my assessment is so far-reaching that it is scary) and to leave the boring, time-wasting stuff behind. That’s what I’ll be trying to pull off in future communications.
Thanks again for responding to a challenging e-mail in a warm and honest and frank and encouraging way. That gives me some hope (combined with a few other recent developments) that this saga may be taking a bit of a turn in a life-affirming direction.
Rob


Comments
Simplicity and What Causes What
People like simplicity and to avoid specifics. “Buy-and-hold” is a very simple message. It does not ask you to think. “Market timing” requires you to be specific. To let “long-term market timing” gain grounds on “buy-and-hold” view, it probably would need a simplification of the message.
Like this article describes, it is also too simple to blame a single group (e.g. bankers) for the economic crisis we are in. But I think it goes too far to say that bull markets cause crises, and that buy-and-hold causes the bull market and therefore the crisis.
– Booms and busts in asset prices are as old as capitalism. Irrational high asset prices go hand-in-hand with other economic aspects of a boom period. They reinforce each other, but it goes too far I think to say that one causes the other. And furthermore, there have been many crises before the 20th century and before buy-and-hold was a term that was known or promoted.
– But yes, a deflation of a stock or other asset bubble, evaporates a lot of paper wealth, reduces the (imagined) spending power and demand and reinforces the crisis economics down like it did on the way up.
Thanks for describing your views that go against the mainstream. Diverse views create better understanding.
Trend Investing – Mar 27, 2011
I’m grateful for your intelligent comment and criticism, Stock Trend Investing.
I agree with you re the facts. Booms and busts are indeed as old as capitalism.
I don’t agree that it follows that they are a necessary feature of capitalism. There was a time when walking around in the darkness was a necessary feature of nighttime. Then we learned how to harness the power of electricity. I believe that we can make a similar advance by learning what causes booms and busts and what is needed to prevent them.
We don’t need to pass any laws. All we need to do is to appeal to people’s self-interest. Every investor alive wants to be an effective investor. What if we provided tools to people letting them know by how many years they are delaying their retirements by failing to take prices into account when setting their stock allocations? I would think that would get things going. Investors’ desire to obtain higher returns at lower risk would do the rest.
I of course acknowledge that there are not millions of people saying this today. The first thing we have to do is to get a discussion of the possibility started. I personally see that as a far more appealing way to go than wasting time getting caught up in all sorts of political frictions. Anyway, that’s where I’m coming from re this thing.
I agree with you that this message needs to be simple to succeed. My view is that the simple way to say it is that looking at the price of a thing you buy is always a good thing, even when the thing you are buying is stocks. To me, that is very simple. I think the complication stems from the fact that The Stock-Selling Industry has spent millions in marketing expenses promoting Buy-and-Hold. Common sense tells people that price matters. But they have heard that opposing message so many times that they have come to doubt what their common sense tells them.
In any event, I am certainly grateful to you for taking the time to read and comment helpfully on this long article. And I do very much agree with you that no single group (bankers or any other) can be blamed for the economic crisis. I blame Buy-and-Hold. But I acknowledge that we are all responsible for the popularity of Buy-and-Hold. It never would have caught on unless it appealed to something basic in human nature. I think that the something basic that it appeals to is our Get RIch Quick impulse. I think that the single biggest project in the investing advice field should be the effort to rein in the destructive power of this basic and universal human inclination to find appeal in Get RIch Quick thinking.
Rob
Rob Bennett – Mar 27, 2011