Mike Piper of Oblivious Investor Bans Dicussion of Lindauer’s Campaign of Terror Against Diehards

Mike Piper, owner of the Oblivious Investor blog, this morning imposed a ban on discussion of Mel Lindauer’s Campaign of Terror against the Vanguard Diehards board community. Mel is the author of The Bogleheads Guide to Investing. When the Vanguard Diehards community showed great interest in learning about the analytical errors made in the retirement studies widely cited by financial planners and in the Valuation-Informed Indexing strategy, he and his “defenders” engaged in viciously abusive posting on nearly every thread at which these topics were addressed. When Morningtar.com refused to ban honest posting, Mel urged community members at that board to abandon it and to move to the Bogleheads.org board, where honest posting on the effect of valuations on long-term returns has been banned from the first day of operation.

Juicy Excerpt: Several comments on this thread have now been deleted. For future reference, any discussions about what did or did not happen on somebody else’s blog or forum count as “off topic” and will be deleted. The place for those discussions is elsewhere.

The Campaign of Terror that has been led by Lindauer and John Greaney  (owner of the www.RetireEarlyHomePage.com site and the author of one of the now-discredited Old School safe withdrawal rate studies) is of obvious importance to middle-class investors trying to understand why they they have lost so much of their retirement money and why the U.S. economy is now suffering a crisis of confidence. Piper has made clear that he will continue to promote Passive Investing at his site even while permitting (and in some cases encouraging)  abusive posting aimed at silencing those who point out the grave dangers of this “strategy” and even while indicating that his mind is closed to the idea of informing his readers about the grave dangers of the Passive model. Mike said in response to my expression of hope that he would turn to the promotion of valuation-informed indexing strategies rather than passive ones that: “That is not going to happen.”

Mike said in an earlier blog entry that: “I do see (at least a potential) value in adjusting asset allocations as a function of current price levels. But to be honest, I see the misinformation spread by the financial services industry (about active management, picking stocks, etc.) as a far larger issue. And until that battle is won — which I doubt will ever completely happen — I don’t foresee myself taking on any other issues with my writings.”

My take on those words is that Mike has (at least for now) put marketing considerations above his desire to inform his readers what works in stock investing.  I do not believe that Mike possesses a full appreciation (or anything close to it) of the merits of the Valuation-Informed Indexing strategy. However, I also believe that he is aware of at least some flaws of the  Pasive model and has elected not to learn more primarily because of marketing considerations (with perhaps a good bit of cognitive dissonance thrown in).

Mike has not entirely banned honest posting on the grave problems with the Passive approach, according to my reading of his statement. My intent is to continue to post on these questions and others at his blog. If Mike continues to permit abusive posting by the Greaney Goons (both the poster named “Dylan” and the poster named “Linda” have long records of abusive posting at blogs and both appear to be associated with the Greaney Goons — John Greaney runs a discussion board at which those seeking to block honest posting at discussion boards and blogs meet each day to discuss strategies for destroying or compromising these communities), I will continue to object. In the event that his adoption of the new policy translates into a decision to take action against abusive posters, the new policy could end up being a positive step (most community members are more concerned with learning the realities of stock investing than in learning about the abusive practices used by Lindauer and Greaney to block knowledge of them and anything that helps middle-class investors learn the realities will ultimately help in the effort to get the various boards and blogs opened to honest posting once again).

I think it is fair to conclude that this development is one more demonstration of the reality that we have learned over and over and over again during the course of the first seven years of The Great Safe Withdrawal Rate Debate — there is no rational case that can be put forward in support of Passive Investing. There certainly was a time when many smart and good people believed that there was. But that was a long, long time ago. And the most important initiative for all indexers today should be to help us move to the next stage of The Indexing Revolution — the valuation-informed stage.

Addendum: Mike Piper has sent me an e-mail that combines frankness and kindness in a wonderful combination that impresses me greatly (although Mike is certainly not agreeing with all that I say in this blog entry). I will report on Mike’s e-mail in Thursday’s blog entry. If Mike gives me permission, I will run the full text of the e-mail. Mike is trying very hard and I am extremely grateful to him for his efforts at understanding the other point of view. He knows how to disagree with someone while remaining friendly to that person, an essential skill of the most successful long-term investors. The right stuff!


  1. Evidence Based Investing says

    Your ability to alienate website owners has not diminished over time.

    This includes those who have been willing to allow you to create guest posts.

    Have you ever read the book “How to win friends and influence people” by Dale Carnegie?

  2. Rob says

    It takes a tough man to make a tender chicken, Evidence.

    I think you are right to suggest that Mike is annoyed by my insistence on my right (and the right of all other community members) to post honestly on Passive Investing, Evidence.

    I think he is wrong to be annoyed. Most of what I have learned about investing in the past seven years has been the result of posts put forward by community members who were posting their sincere views. Sometimes they were letting me know about things that I didn’t know about before they posted. Sometimes they were posting on things re which I had once made mistakes. That’s all part of the learning process, you know? It’s when you acknowledge that it is possible that you have gotten some things wrong in the past or that there are some new things that you might learn in the future that the possibility of learning opens up to you. I love learning! So I am grateful to all the fine community members who have helped me.

    You know who I suspect also enjoys a learning experience from time to time? A fellow named “Mike Piper.”

    You know someone else who I think might fall into the same category? A fellow who posts under the screen-name “Evidence-Based Investing.”

    My sincere take.


  3. Evidence Based Investing says

    I am glad that you love learning. If I could make another suggestion to add to you reading list.

    On Writing Well, The Classic Guide to Writing Nonfiction by William K. Zinsser


    You can “Click to look inside” and it will show a few pages.

    Chapter Two is called “Simplicity” and the first couple of pages are available via the “Look Inside” feature.

    Here are a couple of “Juicy excerpts”.

    “Clutter is the disease of American writing.”

    “But the secret of good writing is to strip every sentence to its cleanest components. Every word that serves no function, every long word that could be a short word, every adverb that carries the same meaning that’s already in the verb, every passive construction that leaves the reader unsure of who is doing what- these are the thousand and one adulterants that weaken the strength of a sentence.”

    The book is also available from the Loudoun County Public Library.


  4. Rob says

    You’re just angry that I reported the safe withdrawal rate accurately, Evidence. Give me a break.



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