“The Prison Sentences Must Come First. We Have Seen That Jack Bogle Is Afraid to Post Honestly Because of His Fear of What You Goons Will Do to Him If He Dares to ‘Cross’ You.”

Set forth below is the text of a comment that I recently put to another blog entry at this site:

You could use this blog to explain your theories. You just use this blog to rant and rave about people who support “Buy and Hold”. It seems the one holding Valuation Informed Indexing down is YOU, Rob.

We disagree, Sensible.

I have zero problem with people who post in support of Buy-and-Hold in sincere ways. Pro-Buy-and-Hold posts are part of the process by which we all learn together. Those who believe in Buy-and-Hold have both a right and responsibility to say so in all their posts. People who put forward sincere posts in support of Buy-and-Hold are our friends.

People who engage in ABUSIVE posting are NOT our friends.

Those people INTIMIDATE those who have doubts about Buy-and-Hold from saying so.

Those people hurt us in very serious ways. Those people caused the economic crisis. Those people have for 11 years now covered up the errors in the Old School safe withdrawal rate studies. Those people are in the process of bringing on the Second Great Depression. Those people have been committing felonies for many years now and need to be put in prison. Animals belong in cages, no? There is a REASON why we made the sort of behavior these people engage in felonies under the laws of the United States.

Once prison sentences are announced for those who have put up posts in “defense” of Mel Linduaer and John Greaney, our troubles are over, Sensible. We are the luckiest generation of investors who ever lived. The research that I co-authored with Wade Pfau shows us all how to reduce the risk of stock investing by 70 percent. Once we get that study reported on at the front page of the New York Times, we will be on our way to the greatest period of economic growth in our history.

But, yes, the prison sentences must come first. We have seen that Jack Bogle is afraid to post honestly because of his fear of what you Goons will do to him if he dares to “cross” you. We have seen that Bill Bernstein is afraid to post honestly because of his fear of what you Goons will do to him if he dares to “cross” you. We have seen that Larry Swedroe is afraid to post honestly because of his fear of what you Goons will do to him if he dares to “cross” you.

We need these people, and thousands and thousands of others, posting honestly. We need to get accurate information out to millions of middle-class investors to have any hope of recovering from this economic crisis.

My best wishes to you and yours.



  1. Anonymous says

    “Jack Bogle is afraid to post honestly because of his fear of what you Goons will do to him if he dares to “cross” you. “

    John Bogle is an 84 year old grandfather. He has suffered poor health for years, and has had a heart transplant. He still maintains a completely positive attitude towards life, but openly acknowledges that his remaining days are numbered. He was a child of the hard-scrabble depression. He put himself through College at night. He is a man who has made huge mistakes in his youth, and in his career, and owned up to them — even offered them up as counter-examples for others to avoid. By 1974, he had built Vanguard into the second largest mutual fund company in history. He has written about a dozen highly successful books, has lectured, and is nearly universally revered among anyone familiar with him, even those tiny few who might disagree with his basic premises (not very many of those around). History, data, analysis, and the most recent developments in Behavioral Finance all tend to endorse the general surmises and approaches and investing advice that he developed for individual investors, starting way back in the fifties. He has received numerous awards and acknowledgements from a variety of stalwart institutions of academia and industry over the years. Even at his advanced age, long past retirement, he continues to volunteer and to serve and to speak, ONLY for the general benefit of the ‘common man’, not for honorarium, or fame. He is a plain spoken, and a simple man. A truthful man. One of his universal themes has always been to support the individual investor and his quest for security, not to build personal wealth, fame, or some corporate giant, out to optimize profits at the expense of investors and customers.

    Given who HE is, I sincerely doubt that he is at this point ‘afraid’ of anything. Anything at all. So he would certainly not be afraid of some little pipsqueak liar on the intertubes who he had never heard of, or if he had, took minimal notice of, after rapidly establishing that he was dealing with a QUACK.

    Rob, you should be deeply ashamed of yourself.

  2. Rob says

    A truthful man.

    Is he truthful about Mel Linduaer, Anonymous?

    Richard Nixon did many great things in the course of his lifetime. What is he most remembered for today? A reputation is as strong as its weakest link. Jack’s knowledge of the Lindauer matter is documented.

    You talk the “I Love Jack Bogle” talk. I walk the “I Love Jack Bogle” walk.

    It was years ago when I first advised my good friend to disassociate himself in every way, shape and form possible from the sorts of individuals who have put forward posts in “defense” of Mel Linduaer and John Greaney. I’ve noticed that you have held back, waiting for it to become safe to do so. Some friend.

    By correcting Jack’s errors, I have taken Buy-and-Hold to places he never dreamed of being able to take it. No apologies. That’s the job.

    And by speaking out in opposition to Linduaer and Greaney I have put myself in circumstances where I can defend Jack’s work following the next price crash, something that none of those who were too afraid to speak out can do effectively.

    Mel Linduaer is an internet goon, a nothingburger. My good friend Jack has been responsible for 90 percent of the “fame” that Linduaer enjoys today. I somehow find it hard to believe that Linduaer would have a column at Forbes if it hadn’t been for Jack’s recommendation.

    Linduaer thanks him by dragging his reputation through the mud. He thanks him by telling him he had better behave or Mel will sic his Goons on him.

    Jack has real accomplishments to his name. Linduaer is an internet Goon extraordinaire.Because he has shown repeatedly a depraved indifference to human life possessed by few, he tells Jack to roll over and Jack rolls over. Linduaer asks Bogle to bark and Jack barks and then looks up with pleading eyes asking the Master whether he has barked loud enough to be spared a whipping this time.


    I respect Jack for the days in which he was not ashamed of his humanity, the days in which he wrote in his book that he would want his friends to tell him about any mistakes he made that caused millions of middle-class workers to suffer grave financial harm.

    One of the two of us should be feeling deep shame, Anonynous. I think it would be fair to say that much.

    Mel Linduaer demanded that I be BANNED FOR LIFE from both Morningstar.com and the Bogleheads Forum. I’d be grateful for anything you could do to spread the word all across the internet.

    My best and warmest wishes to you and yours.


  3. Anonymous says

    More garbage from Rob.

    Rob, you deserved getting banned due to your behavior. You would think you would have learned after getting banned at all the other popular boards. You are an evil person that is bent on revenge.

    None of the people are your “friends” and you are not even fit to tie their shoes.

    You are a liar and a fraud.

  4. Rob says

    You forgot to mention that I am the person who discovered the errors in the Old School safe-withdrawal-rate studies, Anonymous. I think it would be fair to say that you are going soft as time passes.

    I naturally wish you all the best of luck in your future life endeavors, my old friend (whose shoes I am not fit to tie).


  5. Rob says

    You’ve persuaded me, Anonymous.

    The safe withdrawal rate is always 4 percent.

    You naturally have my wishes for a healthy and prosperous New Year.


  6. Anonymous says

    As Wade said, I think you got your answer on that thread:

    hocus asks,

    The data that turned up for 1969 concerned me. As I read the data, it appeared to me that had I made an 80 percent stock allocation in 1969, I would now (31 years later) have lost all of my investment and be bankrupt. Is that true? It’s possible that I don’t understand how the calculator works, but that result was disturbing to me. The actual portflio figure that the calculator gave was that I would now have a negative $31,035. I don’t understand the concept of a negative portfolio value. That’s what makes me a little uncertain as to whether I am reading the results correctly.

    You’re reading the results correctly. The negative portfolio balance just means you ran out of money.

    So I tried to think of a way to make the historical return data more relevant to the circumstances which people with money to invest today need to take into consideration. It seems to me that the big problem for people investing today is the high prices (in historical terms) attached to stock purchases today. So I think it would be a plus to have a calculator which allowed an adjustment in the safe withdrawal rate for people investing at time periods in which different price levels prevail.

    I’m not aware of anyone who has been successful in timing when stock prices are high or low over the long-term. If you possess this unique ability that others lack, perhaps the easiest thing to do is to adjust the safe withdrawal rate by the amount that you consider stocks to be higher than they have ever been. If stocks are 25% higher, drop the 4% withdrawal to 3%. If you feel stocks are 50% higher than they have ever been, then drop the 4% down to a 2% withdrawal.


  7. Anonymous says

    It is funny that we can find any of those “death threats” on that thread or any other thread.

  8. Rob says

    There is now 32 years of peer-reviewed academic research showing that there is precisely zero chance that a Buy-and-Hold strategy could ever work for even a single long-term investor, Anonymous.

    How do you explain the reality that there are still people hawking Buy-and-Hold to this day if you sincerely maintain doubts as to whether there have been death threats and unjustified board bannings and tens of thousands of acts of defamation and threats to get academic researchers fired from their jobs?

    I say that the popularity of Buy-and-Hold and insane levels of abusiveness go together. It’s not possible to get anyone to believe in Buy-and-Hold without death threats and unjustified board bannings and tens of thousands of acts of defamation and threats to get academic researchers fired from their jobs. If it were possible, someone would have tried it by now.


  9. Anonymous says

    Despite your blatherings, you have never posted a link to any actual death threat (other than the threat you made and links to your own posts). The board bannings against you are clearly justified and I applaud those that took the steps. I do agree that there have been thousands of acts of defamation as I see that you continue to make those on a very regular basis. Poor Wade is the greatest recipient of your comments.

  10. Anonymous says

    “there is precisely zero chance that a Buy-and-Hold strategy could ever work for even a single long-term investor.”

    It worked for me.
    It worked for my father, who has since passed on.
    If I am correct in what I have read from you (and I literally BEG you to correct me if I am in error) it worked for YOUR father, too Rob!

    So that’s three independent proofs that your nutty claim is wrong, from right off the top of my head, and of course I only needed one to do the job, anyway. End of argument.

  11. Rob says

    If you asked my father whether Buy-and-Hold worked for him, he would answer: “Yes!” I think that much is fair to say, Anonymous.

    I see that as a misperception on his part. Buy-and-Hold ALWAYS causes an economic collapse. It is a logical impossibility that persuading millions of investors to fail to exercise price discipline could produce any other result. And, sure enough, my father experienced an economic collapse during his investing lifetime (as does every Buy-and-Holder who lives long enough to invest for more than 40 years — and that’s all of them except for the ones who die early deaths). My father was too young to invest in the collapse of the 1930s. So he missed that one. He died shortly prior to the 2008 collapse. But he had to endure the stagflation of the 1970s, which was brought on by the overvaluation of the 1960s (which was made possible by the popularity of an “idea” that was pushed heavily at the time that there is no need for investors to lower their stock allocations in response to big valuation shifts — sound familiar?)

    Few investors blame Buy-and-Hold for today’s economic crisis, Anonymous. That’s because discussion of the role played by Buy-and-Hold is prohibited on the internet. If we gave ourselves permission to discuss these things openly and clearly and frankly, we would all see it. The evidence is overwhelming.

    That economic collapse hurt my father’s portfolio in a very serious way. Just as the economic crisis we are living through today is hurting all of today’s investors in a very serious way.

    How do the Buy-and-Holders get off the hook for all the damage their “strategy” causes for millions? They blame The Economy. It’s all that darn Economy’s fault! Bad, bad Economy!

    It’s always something, isn’t it?

    The reality is that no one should be even a tiny bit surprised to see the economy collapse when $12 trillion of spending power goes “Poof!” And those who are familiar with the findings of the last 32 years of peer-reviewed academic research in this field knew in 2000 that we were going to see that much spending power disappear from our economy by the end of the first decade of the 21st Century. That’s why Shiller was able to predict an economic crisis that did not take place until September 2008 in a book published in March 2000.

    Buy-and-Hold hurt my father big time. He didn’t know it. But that doesn’t mean that the hurt was not real.

    My father had an excuse for not knowing what caused him to suffer those losses. Shiller didn’t publish his research until 1981 and most of the “experts” in this field have not yet seen fit to share with the millions of middle-class workers their analyses of the implications of Shiller’s “revolutionary” (his word) findings.

    What’s your excuse, Anonymous?

    And, more important than that, what’s Bogle’s excuse?

    I say it. I don’t hold back. Can Bogle say that?

    I think it would be fair to say that Old Saint Jack owes your father and my father and their sons and daughters an explanation for his poor behavior re this matter.

    The Buy-and-Hold “idea” (that there is something special about stocks that makes them the one thing you can buy without being concerned about the price you pay) has caused an awful lot of people an awful lot of pain. Once upon a time, we didn’t know this. So it would be fair to say that it was just one of those things. Since 1981, we have “known” (intellectually if not emotionally). When are we going to get about the business of Taking Some Steps to set things right?


  12. laugh says

    Who are these people for whom it has caused ‘a lot of pain’? Have any of them ever posted on your website for example? Can you name a single one?

    I like your heartfelt apology on the Motley Fool. That might have been the last sane thing you did.

  13. Rob says

    Buy-and-Hold caused great pain for every one of the millions of people who lost their jobs in the economic crisis, Laugh.

    I was wrong to apologize for telling the truth. When I told the truth, I was helping those millions of people. When I apologized for telling the truth, I was betraying them.

    We all should be working together to understand the social pressures that caused me to post that apology. It’s those same desires to fit in that cause you to behave the way you do and to cause Jack Bogle to behave the way he does and that cause Wade Pfau to behave the way he does and on and on and on.

    We are the luckiest generation of investors ever to walk Planet Earth. We need to figure out how to give ourselves permission to enjoy our good fortune. It starts with saying the words “I” and “Was” and “Wrong.” No learning experience can begin until we can publicly accept that there was a time when we didn’t know it all.

    Jack Bogle didn’t always know it all. Wade Pfau didn’t always know it all. Laugh didn’t always know it all. Rob Bennett didn’t always know it all.

    If we can let that in, we can do amazing things.

    But that first step is a doozy. We look about and we see that we set back our retirement dreams by many years by not being able to say those words. And we see that we destroyed the financial futures of our friends and neighbors and co-workers and fellow community members by not being able to say those words. And we see that we wrote thousands of books that gave bad information because we were not able to say those words. And we see that we created hundreds of calculators that caused people to make wrong choices because we were not able to say those words.

    We can continue to suffer and we can see our suffering get worse and worse and worse.

    Or we can say the words and bring the suffering to an end and spend the rest of our lives enjoying our many blessings.

    I can’t make it happen without help, Laugh. That’s as plain as plain can be.

    But I also can’t not try to obtain that help and thereby end the suffering of all my Buy-and-Hold friends. That’s also as plain as plain can be.

    You didn’t have to ask me who is suffering. You know too well. If you didn’t know, nothing that the peer-reviewed academic research of the past 32 years shows us would hurt you even a tiny little bit. If you didn’t know about all of the suffering, you never would have been involved in a single death threat or a single unjustified board banning or a single act of defamation or a single threat to get a single academic researcher fired from a single job.

    You know all about the suffering. And it holds you back to this day. We all have to pray that some day things will reach a point where you will see that continuation of the cover-up is not the answer. Starting at that point, things will get better with each passing day rather than worse. Starting at that point, we will see that there are not two sides re this matter, that each and every one of us benefits from research that shows us how to invest more effectively.

    In any event, I certainly wish you the best of luck with whatever investing strategies you elect to pursue.



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