Yesterday’s blog entry reported on an e-mail sent to me by Academic Researcher Wade Pfau on May 1, 2011, in which he described his fears of getting fired because of the threats made by the Greaney Goons to contact his employer with defamatory comments as their way of “punishing” Wade for having posted his honest views on the need for the Old School safe withdrawal rate studies to be corrected now that there is a consensus in the field that they get the numbers that millions of middle-class people have used to plan their retirements wildly wrong. I sent my response later the same day. The text is set forth below.
Wade:
Thanks for your kind (and troubling) note.
I will of course honor your wishes re the matters you refer to below.
The concern you are expressing is so insane that I am tempted not to take it seriously. The other side of the story, of course, is that I have had similar things done to me on scores of occasions and I have seen similar things done to many others. So the full reality is that the concern you evidence is only in an objective sense insane and in the context in which it is being raised here entirely real.
Please don’t delude yourself into thinking that there is anything more than a zero chance that “this stuff will blow over soon and those guys will forget about it and move on to the next thing.” This has been going on for nine years.
It would have been far, far easier to let it go when it all could have been easily characterized as a well-intentioned mistake. We now have s situation where hundreds of reputations are at jeopardy and where tens of thousands of lawsuits are likely to be filed once middle-class investors hear the story. I obviously wish that I could wave a magic wand and take us back to the morning of May 13, 2002. But none of us possess that power. All responsible people caught up in this (I think
it is fair to say that that includes all responsible people living in free-market economies today) need to accept the cards we have been dealt and take whatever steps we can to bring things to a good and positive and life-affirming resolution for every single person (including those on “the other side”) as possible.
I believe that our hope lies in the fact that everyone deep down inside wants the same thing. There are of course some who tell themselves that they do not want a resolution. But deep down inside they do. They have painted themselves into a corner and are not capable of letting in the full horror of what they have done. We have to extend the hand of kindness while also insisting on the right to do honest and positive work and not to degrade ourselves or participate in the degradation of others. We need to combine love and honesty in the proper proportions.
I’ll always do anything I can to take things to a positive place. I don’t know if you believe in God or not, but, if you do, this is a time to call on that belief for comfort that a positive resolution of this matter really is possible. I (somewhat stubbornly) believe that it is. John Walter Russell used to tell me “I’ve put it in God’s hands and i know it will eventually work out better than anyone can today imagine.” John had a stronger faith than I did. But I have just enough to see that there might be something to what he said.
I am horrified to think that I have even in the most indirect way caused you to feel anxiety over how things might proceed. I apologize for that. I hope that you possess at least some understanding of the huge importance of the research you have already done (to say nothing of what you are obviously capable of doing in the future). My dream is that there will be a day when the pain you have been put through here pays huge dividends (I of course dream that the same will someday be true for me and my family).
Please keep your chin up and stay optimistic. The potential good here is 500 times bigger than the small-minded stuff. There’s got to be a way to make the good stuff happen and make the ugly stuff go away. We will find it together (I don’t mean just you and me but the entire community of investors and people living in free-market economies in general).
Please let me know if there are any promising avenues that you discover or any questions or concerns that you would like to direct to me. If you ever think I am walking an ill-chosen path, I would be grateful if you would let me know. I obviously don’t always get it all right. I need to count on my friends to steer me back to a better path when I take wrong steps.
Please take care.
Rob
Evidence Based Investing says
I will of course honor your wishes re the matters you refer to below.
But you didn’t. No surprise there.
Rob says
I honored them, Evidence.
Please take a look at the date of the e-mail and then take a look at the date of the blog post.
I obviously had no idea when I said those words that Wade was going to flip to the dark side. His flip to the dark side has major public policy implications.
We have had middle-class investors saying for years now: “Rob, everything you say about investing makes 100 percent sense but it is the opposite of what the experts say and I feel that it would be too risky to go against the experts.” Now we know why the experts advise the opposite of what works. Giving bad investing advice makes the investing experts very, very wealthy.
Wade is obviously not the first academic researcher who was informed that he would stop doing accurate and honest and realistic research if he knew what was good for him. How are we going to solve this problem? The people who go along to get along are not going to publicly acknowledge it.
Wade’s e-mails tell a story that very much needs to be told. I am obviously not telling this story to hurt Wade. I want to see Wade get that Nobel prize that he has earned with his amazing contributions.
I don’t want Wade ever again to feel the wrath of the Goons as his “punishment” for doing honest research. I don’t want to feel their wrath for posting honestly. I don’t want Bogle to feel their wrath. I don’t want Burns to feel their wrath. I don’t want Bernstein to feel their wrath.
If you were thinking clearly, you wouldn’t want any of those people feeling afraid to post honestly either. We all will be learning things about stock investing that we thought we would never know once we give ourselves permission to share with each other our honest views on how stock investing works.
This is my sincere take re this important topic, in any event.
I wish you all good things.
Rob
Evidence Based Investing says
Wade’s e-mails tell a story that very much needs to be told.
The emails tell the same story that we have seen over and over again whenever you interact with anyone regarding investing.
They eventually realize that any point you might be making is buried in a sea of hocomania and they tire of it.
You throw a hissy fit and double down on the hocomania and another name gets added to your enemies list.
Just today you put out 9 tweets all mentioning Wade and linking to this post. And we are only 2 months into your 3 month regurgitation of a year old email chain that wade asked to keep private.
Your main problem is that you do not treat those you interact with in a respectful manner. And hence you are regarded with contempt by most of those who have dealt with you on discussion boards.
Rob says
Your main problem is that you do not treat those you interact with in a respectful manner.
I’m the one saying that the Goons should not have threatened to send defamatory e-mails to Wade’s employer.
My view is that it is the Goons and Wade himself who are not treating Wade in a respectful manner.
My best wishes to you.
Rob
Evidence Based Investing says
I’m the one saying that the Goons should not have threatened to send defamatory e-mails to Wade’s employer.
Wade has already demonstrated that that accusation is false.
Rob says
And hence you are regarded with contempt by most of those who have dealt with you on discussion boards.
How do you know?
If Wade felt that he could post honestly and not be fired from his job as his punishment for doing so, he might say that he learned more about investing from me than he ever has from anyone else, just as he did in the days before the threats were made.
Things people say with a gun pointed at their head do not count, Evidence. I want to know what Wade really believes about these matters. To learn that, we would need to lift the Ban on Honest Posting.
I’m game. And you?
Rob
Rob says
Wade has already demonstrated that that accusation is false.
Good point, Evidence.
Rob
Evidence Based Investing says
How do you know?
I read the boards.
Rob says
The posts we saw at the boards told a very different story in the days when we permitted honest posting.
Do you have any reason to believe that we would not once again hear a very different story if we reopened them to honest posting?
I sure don’t.
Rob
Evidence Based Investing says
if we reopened them to honest posting?
If we reopened the boards to your peculiar brand of honest posting we would see the same thing all over again.
You spouting nonsense, making up stuff, quoting people incorrectly or out of context, refusing to deal with others in a respectful manner, refusing to answer questions or giving gibberish or non sequitur answers, repeating nonsense after it was proven to be nonsense and generally behaving in a manner designed to get you banned.
There is already a big enough archive of hocomania on the blogs and discussion boards, we don’t need any more.
Rob says
we would see the same thing all over again.
This is not so, Evidence. Not if we were sure to ban the Goons as the first order of business.
At every board and blog at which the realities have been discussed, we have seen huge support for the idea.
It’s always when the Goons bring death threats and defamation and board bannings and threats to get people fired from their jobs to the table that things go downhill. People feel ashamed to be a part of that sort of thing.
There are good reasons why the published rules of every site prohibit the tactics that have been employed by the Lindaurheads and the Greaney Goons.
Please take care.
Rob
Evidence Based Investing says
This is not so, Evidence. Not if we were sure to ban the Goons as the first order of business.
But the problem is that after anyone interacts with you for any significant period of time they realize that your comments on investing are nonsense and you behave in a reprehensible manner, or to use your terminology, they become Goons.
Banning everyone who disagrees with you is no way to build a thriving discussion board community.
To see the results of what happens when you are free to post as much as you like see the A Rich Life blog or the hocomania board.
Rob says
That makes a lot of sense, Evidence.
Rob
Diversified Investor says
Yesterday, Wade exposes you as a liar and a fraud. Today you are back to the same tired lies. How utterly pathetic
Rob says
Good stuff, Diversified.
Rob
Evidence Based Investing says
If you ever think I am walking an ill-chosen path, I would be grateful if you would let me know. I obviously don’t always get it all right. I need to count on my friends to steer me back to a better path when I take wrong steps.
He did let you know, you ignored him. When your friends try to steer you back to a better path you ignore them as well.
Rob says
The comment was obviously made before Wade went to the Dark Side, Evidence. Once he went to the Dark Side, the tables were turned. Now it’s my job to let him know that he in traveling an ill-chosen path. I have done that. I will be in days to come reporting on e-mails in which I IMPLORE Wade not to do what he has done. At one point, I say: “Are you insane? Think, man!” That’s a friend trying to help a friend.
The point that I was making in the words you quote was that two people pursing a common goal can have different ideas as to how to achieve it. It might be that Wade would think one course of action best and that I would be leaning in a different direction. In those circumstances, I would benefit from hearing his take. I said those words to let him know that I do not think I know it all and that I very much want to hear that other point of view.
I obviously was not intending to suggest that I would be open someday to turning to the Dark Side. Only a full-fledged Goon like yourself would ever entertain such notions. The comment was made at a time when both Wade Pfau and Rob Bennett wanted to see the internet opened to honest posting on safe withdrawal rates and many other critically important investment-related topics.
You of course knew all this somewhere in your heart before you advanced your comment here. You need to be listening more carefully to the part of you that knows these simple and obvious things and less to the Goon part of you that sees it as a good thing that you experience as much “confusion” over every issue that comes up as possible.
I pray that your future contains less Gooinishness than your troubled present, my old friend.
Rob
Evidence Based Investing says
At one point, I say: “Are you insane? Think, man!” That’s a friend trying to help a friend.
No it isn’t. It is you insulting someone who has demonstrated much more understanding of the issues than you.
Rob says
Good point, Evidence.
Rob