Set forth below is the text of a comment that I recently posted to another blog entry at this site:
Does “consistent practice” mean hijacking threads and repeating the same words over and over, even after everyone understands your view? That sounds more like trolling. Politely state your view once, then be prepared to listen to and understand the views of others, and to change your views as needed. That’s just how civilized society works.
When you say “politely state your view once,” do you mean once per week or once per day or once per post or once per question directed to me?
I have zero problem with a rule that says that I should post once per thread and then once more for each question directed to me. That’s the rule that I follow.
If you are saying that I should only post once per week or once per day or once per thread and not twice even if a large number of questions are directed to me, then I ask in response, Why does that same rule not apply to Buy-and-Holders?
I am 100 percent happy to abide by any posting rule that also applies to Buy-and-Holders.
If I agree to post less often than Buy-and-Holders as a concession to those employing intimidation tactics to keep discussions of the implications of the past 33 years of peer-reviewed research to a minimum, then I obviously cannot present my case as effectively as those who have not agreed to limit their posting in this way. It’s because too many others have agreed to do that that we are in an economic crisis today.
The Buy-and-Holders should post what they sincerely believe. And the Valuation-Informed Indexers should post what they believe.
No posters should intimidate others. All should say what they believe without holding back out of fear of what will be done to them or said about them if they post honestly. We all should respect our fellow posters. We all should feel at least a measure of affection for our fellow posters (who, after all, seek to educate us by sharing their views with us without being paid for their time). The same rules should apply both to those who root their investing beliefs in the peer-reviewed research of Eugene Fama and to those who root their investing beliefs in the peer-reviewed research of Robert Shiller.
That’s my sincere take re this terribly important question, in any event.
Rob
You really don’t get it, do you. Yet here you wonder why people react to you the way they do.
I love my country, Anonymous. That’s the bottom line here.
Please know that I extend my best and warmest wishes to you.
Rob
And please keep in mind that it is only a small percentage of the population (the Goon percentage) that has responded to me in the way that you have. There were hundreds of community members at Motley Fool that expressed an intense gratitude to me for putting up that May 13, 2002, post and thereby kicking off the most exciting discussion we ever had at that board. Things proceeded the same at many other sites. So we ended up with THOUSANDS of middle-class investors saying such things.
When deciding on the length of your prison sentence, your jury will be able to read the comments that those thousands of middle-class investors put forward along with the brutally abusive comments of you Goons. The statistical probabilities suggest that you might have one Goon serving on your jury, at most two. I don’t think that’s going to be enough for you to get off. I think that the odds of you getting off are very small at this point.
But we are all going to find out together following the next price crash. No? That’s the drama of the thing, is it not?
I naturally wish you the best of luck in all your future life endeavors.
Rob
You really don’t get it, do you.
I “get it” that you want to cover up the reality that the retirement study posted at John Greaney’s web site does not contain an adjustment for the valuation level that applies on the day the retirement begins and that I want to expose that reality.
I “get it” that it is the 34-year cover-up of Shiller’s “revolutionary” (his word) findings of 1981 that caused the economic crisis that began in 2008, an economic crisis that has caused people both from the left (The Occupy Wall Street Movement) and the right (The Tea Part Movement) to lose confidence in our political system.
I “get it” that you are going to prison following the next price crash and that I am in line to receive a settlement check of $500 million.
Those three are enough for me to want to act to protect my country from the actions of the Wall Street Con Men and the Internet Goon Squads who do their dirty work.
Sue me.
Rob
When you say “politely state your view once,” do you mean once per week or once per day or once per post or once per question directed to me?
Right, and that’s the difference between a boorish troll and a civilized person. The civilized person doesn’t have to ask how many times he should bark his pet opinion at others in a given social situation.
We normals know when it’s appropriate to make a point, when a point has been made, and when it’s time to shit up and listen to others.
I’m not shutting up, Anonymous.
And I’m not the one going to prison following the next price crash.
I wonder why.
Take care, man.
Rob, the Research-Based Troll
I’m not shutting up, Anonymous.
But we’ve already shut you up, Rob! You’ve been removed from the conversation.
You can squawk here, but it will only be for the entertainment of us goons. You can publish vanity books, but no one will buy them. You can send out 50,000 emails, but you won’t make any buddies. Etc etc.
There were hundreds of community members at Motley Fool
Both living in the past, and fantasizing about the future are signs of a pathetic present.
But we’ve already shut you up, Rob! You’ve been removed from the conversation.
Okay.
I won’t post dishonestly re the numbers that my friends use to plan their retirements in any event, Anonymous.
My best and warmest wishes to you.
Rob
Both living in the past, and fantasizing about the future are signs of a pathetic present.
My view is that the future is bright indeed.
The future will be built on all that we learned in the past.
The present is sort of messed up. I’ll give you that one. We are in an economic crisis today because of things that we did not always know about how stock investing works.
But we know them now. At least intellectually. And we will know them in every possible way in days to come.
I don’t like having to live through this transition period. But I accept the reality that this is how it is. I am certainly excited about getting to the other side. And I certainly have no regrets about leaving behind the stuff that brought on all the nastiness of the present day.
Don’t let the bad guys get you down, my old friend.
Rob
But we’ve already shut you up, Rob! You’ve been removed from the conversation.
I don’t like being shut up.
And I don’t like seeing others shut up.
It goes against the basic principles of the nation that I love. I want to see everyone working together in a great learning experience. I see that as more positive and life-affirming than any of this Goon stuff. I see that as the future of the investing advice field.
I don’t believe that even the Wall Street Con Men want this stuff anymore. Or even you Goons. I think that, if we could go back to 1981, Bogle would give an “I Was Wrong” speech or perhaps an “I’m Not Sure” speech and everything would be great from that point forward. I think that, if we could go back to the morning of May 13, 2002, Greaney would correct his study or at the very least add some language noting that there are two schools of academic thought re how stock investing works and then link to the materials that people would need to see to know what the Valuation-Informed Indexers believe the safe withdrawal rate to be.
Nobody has a magic wand. So we have to do it this other way.
It’s a pain. It’s stupid. We’re seeing lots of human suffering and we all want to take steps and we feel trapped. Yuck!
But whachagonnado?
We have to get to the other side of The Big Black Mountain. That one is not optional. It’s imperative.
The good news here is 50 times more good than the bad news here is bad.
So I think the sensible thing is to build a record and then step up and let millions of people put it to use following the next price crash, when the case for us all pulling together to follow the laws of the United States and to see that even the wealthy and powerful Wall Street Con Men follow them will be even stronger than it is today. I can’t see any other way to go.
The thought of joining in on the massive act of financial fraud is horrifying to me. I told my good friend Wade Pfau that I thought he was “insane” to do that. That’s strong language. I used that language because my repulsion for that idea is that strong. I cannot imagine taking a path that I told my friend Wade he would be “insane” to take.
Anyway, we have as a nation gotten ourselves out of tight spots in the past. We survived the Civil War. We survived 911. We survived the Nixon resignation and the Clinton impeachment/non-conviction. We survived Disco. And on and on and on. We are a strong people and a good people. I believe that somehow we will survive John Greaney’s unwillingness to correct an important number that he got wrong on the retirement study posted at his web site. Call me madcap.
There are things that people cannot do. I cannot post dishonestly re the numbers that my friends use to plan their retirements. It’s not in me. A cat can’t bark, a dog can’t meow and Rob Bennett cannot post dishonestly re what the last 34 years of peer-reviewed research tells us about safe withdrawal rates.
It doesn’t follow that I don’t care about you Goons. I care.
I wish you all good things.
Rob
“I don’t like having to live through this transition period. ”
Unless you get a job — even flipping burgers, or clerking at the 7-11 — I think you are going to like the future even less. Being a bum with no money, no prospects, an unwillingness to admit your situation, and a family to look after is a tough row to hoe.
If things get to a point where I need to flip burgers to pay the bills, I obviously will get a job flipping burgers to pay the bills.
How does that change anything of any real consequence?
It doesn’t cost much to keep the site up. A few dollars.
It won’t cost much to send a second round of e-mails to all the academic researchers. I can do it myself when get home from my burger-flipping gig or I can pay a service to do it for me at a low hourly rate. It’s a rate that even a guy flipping burgers can afford.
Me getting a job flipping burgers isn’t going to stop the next price crash. So how does it help you Goons in any way?
And I won’t need to get a job flipping burgers for a good number of years. So we are talking about something pretty darn far out.
So I don’t see how this helps you.
Is mine a tough row to hoe? I suppose it is in some ways. We all have our little troubles. But I wouldn’t trade places with you Goons for anything in the world. Given that, what are my options? I don’t have any other than the ones I am putting to use.
I don’t get it.
But rave on, you know?
Do your Goon thing.
I’ll be there on the other side to shake your hand and wish you well no matter how much crazy, self-destructive stuff you do. We all have our bad days. I’ve done crazy, self-destructive stuff on occasion. I wish that I had had someone there to tell me to knock off the funny business so that I didn’t do it. I am happy to be that person for you even though I have grave doubts that my kind words will make any difference.
Hang in there, man.
Rob the Future Burger Flipper
Your problems are of your own creation. Stop trying to blame everyone else.
The economic crisis is not my problem, Anonymous. It is our entire society’s problem.
The economic crisis was brought on by the promotion of Buy-and-Hold “strategies.” We should all be working together to overcome the problem.
We all get to enjoy the benefits when we overcome the Buy-and-Hold Mafia. It seems to me that we should all work together to make the good stuff happen.
That’s my sincere take re these terribly important matters, in any event.
Rob