Set forth below is the text of a comment that I recently posted to the discussion thread for another blog entry at this site:
What peer-reviewed research, outside of Shiller’s paper and Pfau’s paper, have you read and taken into consideration with respect to how stock investing works?
Those are the two biggies. I also recall looking at work by Rob Arnott, by Peter Bernstein, by Michael Kitces and by Andrew Smithers. Some of the things that I looked at may not have been peer-reviewed but in all these cases we are talking about material that was published in high-quality publications with tough standards.
And of course there was eight years of in-depth research on safe withdrawal rates and scores of related issues by John Walter Russell. John’s work was not peer-reviewed but it was subject to intense scrutiny by thousands of our fellow community members and every non-Goon agreed it was the highest quality work possible.
There were two long papers on “Bubble Logic” by Cliff Asness that impressed me. They had more of a focus on logic than on data but data was used in support of the logical arguments.
I also was strongly influenced by the book “Stocks for the Long Run,” which makes data-based arguments. That book is firmly rooted in a belief in the Buy-and-Hold model. So I don’t agree with many of the strategic recommendations advanced in the book. But it is possible in some cases to gain a sense of how the recommendations made in that book would be altered if the author (Jeremy Siegel) appreciated the importance of making adjustments for valuations. So I found the material presented in the book helpful in advancing my understanding even though in most cases I wouldn’t feel comfortable citing its results without offering qualifications or caveats.
The single finding that had the biggest impact for me was Wade’s finding that there is not a single study in the literature showing that it is not necessary for investors to practice price discipline (long-term timing). I had heard the claim that “timing doesn’t work” so many times from Buy-and-Holders that I just assumed that there must be at least one study backing it up. There is not. There is the one study that Wade discredited because of its glaring flaws. And outside of that, nothing. Most people who say that timing doesn’t work are thinking that Fama’s work showed that. But the reality is that Fama looked only at short-term timing — he never even attempted to examine whether long-term timing works or not (it was not even possible to practice long-term timing until Bogle founded Vanguard in the mid-1970s and made broad index funds widely available). Wade was ASTOUNDED by that finding. He couldn’t get over it. He was very careful to be sure that he had checked the entire literature because he realized that this finding turned everything we once thought we knew about how stock investing works on its head.
Another thing that has always impressed me is that in 36 years no one has found major problems with Shiller’s work. There are details that people argue over and that is always going to be the case and that is of course appropriate. But given how “revolutionary” (Shiller’s word) Shiller’s findings were, there obviously would be lots and lots of people motivated to find holes in his claims. Yet he was awarded a Nobel prize in 2013, after his critics had had over 30 years to find any significant holes.
Finally, I think it is a big deal that Shiller’s finding has continued to apply on a going-forward basis for 36 years now. The Buy-and-Holders like to suggest that this mountain of research showing that valuations affect long-term returns is the product of data mining. But if it were, there is no reason why it should continue to work on a going-forward basis. Yet here we are 36 years down the road and stocks are still performing in the way that the Valuation-Informed Indexing Model posits that they should perform and not in the way that the Buy-and-Hold Model posits that they should perform. I do not think that that means that the Valuation-Informed Indexers have it all figured out. I very much believe otherwise. But I do think it shows beyond any reasonable doubt whatsoever that the last 36 years of peer-reviewed research is pointing to something important and that we should permit it to be discussed at every investing site on the internet.
I certainly do not mean to leave people out. I understand that there are others who have made important contributions in this area. I am just mentioning off the top of my head the people who had the greatest effect on me personally as I struggled to gain a better understanding of these terribly important matters.
I probably should mention that Rob Arnott’s “Editor’s Notes” column at the Financial Analysts Journal had a big influence on me. A very common phenomenon in this field is that people read the findings of a paper and appreciate them in some very limited way but are not able to appreciate how far reaching the implications of the findings are. People are very cautious in the money area and they want to be 100 percent certain that they get things right before they state something. Arnott had the courage to discuss some very far-reaching and very scary implications in plain language. Reading his work gave me the courage to do the same. I did not speak the way I speak today back in 2002.
I was deeply influenced by the book “Stock Cycles.” That book is heavy on statistical analysis but none of it has gone through a peer-review process.
Finally, I really have to mention the hundreds of thousands of comments by my fellow community members. The comments are not peer-reviewed, to be sure. Far from it! But they serve a similar purpose as a peer-review process. The comments of our fellow community members keep us on the straight and narrow, they identify holes in our thinking, they suggest new directions that need to be explored, they warn of the dangers of over-statements. I have benefited immensely from that sort of feedback, both from my thousands of Buy-and-Hold friends and from my hundreds of Valuation-Informed Indexing friends. Heaven help us all but I have benefited from feedback advanced by my Goon friends (on more than one occasion feedback that appeared in a form very, very, very unlike any that has ever been seen in a peer-review sort of environment!).
I think that it would be fair to say that 100 percent of the peer-reviewed research available to us today shows that valuations affect long-term returns and that 0 percent shows otherwise.
I hope that helps a small bit.
Rob


I have been looking at the PE 10 for about a week. Insane values over 30!
Well today its timber time!
To those Buy and Hold investors good luck you will need it.
Value Investors good luck to you also
Be well everybody
Max
Max:
You are giving me a chance to have a different sort of conversation. I have spent most of my time over the past 15 years arguing with Goons, who don’t exactly have open minds re these issues. You clearly have bought in to the basic story. It’s a refreshing change to hear a voice using words like “insane” to describe today’s stock valuations.
Do you think that the Buy-and-Holders want to hurt themselves?
They obviously do not, right?
That’s what makes this so frustrating. We see things that we want to share with them to help them. And they tune it out and become angry in response. That’s bad stuff.
But look at it from the other side of the story. What would it mean for stock investing if these ideas caught on just enough so that everyone would be exposed to them on a daily basis? It would mean that we would all have at least an opportunity to become self-aware as investors. We would still have the freedom to make bad choices. But we would at least know the numbers associated with those bad choices.
I think we are close to achieving that dream. Very close. And I think it is a very big deal. The peer-reviewed research that I co-authored with Wade Pfau showed that investors can reduce stock investing risk by 70 percent just by being willing to adjust their stock allocations in response to big valuation shifts. 70 percent. We have never seen anything like that before. The last 36 years of peer-reviewed research in this field is the financial equivalent of the cure for cancer. Stock investing risk has been a big problem for millions of people for a long time and as a people we have solved the problem in intellectual terms. Now we just need to find a way to translate the intellectual solution into a practical one.
Thanks for stopping by again. Did you come here from the Reddit site? I ask because there was a fellow who asked me whether I would have an interest in doing an “Ask Me Anything” session there. I said “yes” but he has not reappeared. Is there any chance that you would know anything about that?
Rob
Rob
No I’m not from the Reddit site, just found your blog . I”m sorry I dont know anything about that guy. I am just your average Joe middle income guy, who has lost money in the market with Buy & Hold. My problem was emotional, watching my stocks go down 50% while my Bonds had a real return of zero. I became emotional and sold , I became afraid and worried sick.
So I figured this can’t be right there has to be a better way to invest in stocks. My typical answers from the Pro’s were 50% Stocks and 50% Bonds and set it and forget it. Well it doesn’t work, it only works when stocks are going up watching a loss of 50% of my retirement money was too hard and emotionally draining. My % is now 20% stocks and the 80% CD’s and Tips ETF I felt no stress today I felt like I had a plan…So yes Value investing works , unless we want to be drones and just follow the herd to the slaughter of Buy & Hold. So thank you for taking so much time out of your life to figure this out.
Max
Max
Okay, Max. Then it was just a coincidence. Your first comment appeared on Saturday afternoon and then the Reddit guy’s post appeared early Sunday morning. So I thought that there might be a connection.
I am sorry to hear about your losses. I have found that that’s a common theme among people who “get” this stuff. It is often people who have suffered losses who then open their minds to a different way of thinking about things. We are not computers who just apply logic to issues and thereby figure them out. We have wills. Our wills determine what information we let in and what information we do not let in. So long as prices remain high, there will be lots of people who will just not let the last 36 years of peer-reviewed research in. They cannot be forced to do so.
My objection to the behavior of the Goons is not that they do not let this stuff in themselves. It is of course their perfect right not to do so. The objection is that that make that decision for others. They employ underhanded tactics to insure that others who are open to the new research cannot hear about it or discuss it. That’s bad stuff.
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts. You never know who is listening. It could be that your words will reach someone who is on the line today and that that person will let enough in to get it as a result of something that you said. The thing that I love about discussion-board communities is that we all learn from each other at times and we all teach each other at other times. It’s a give-and-take thing. It’s very cool when it is working.
Rob